DCU’s unique Teacher Fellowship ProgrammeEp 11, Emma Farragher & Niall Farrell

Providing teachers with the opportunity to work with student teachers while also progressing their own studies, is at the heart of the Teacher Fellowship Programme.

It is a unique programme offered by DCU and the second group of teachers began their fellowship a few months ago.

Louise is joined by two of them – primary school teacher Emma Farragher and secondary school teacher Niall Farrell.

They tell her why they applied for the fellowship, what they enjoy about it and what they will take from it back to their classrooms.

Click here to listen to the podcast

Louise:
Hello, and welcome to the Teachers Inspire Podcast. I'm Louise O'Neill and I curate Teachers Inspire which is organised and run by Dublin City University.

We want to thank everyone who has nominated a teacher for our 2023 awards. Each one is so special, and I am really looking forward to sharing some of them with you in the coming weeks.

Every year, hundreds of newly qualified teachers graduate from DCU and other colleges. For this podcast, I am joined by two teachers who chose to return to education, and specifically to DCU, to participate in a unique program. It is the Teacher Fellowship Programme and last September five teachers began their two year fellowship.

It provides them with the opportunity to support the development of current student teachers in DCU, while progressing their own studies at either Master’s or PhD level, and the best way to find out about it, and what it offers, is to chat to them!

So joining me in the studio today are Emma Farragher who is a primary school teacher in Castleknock, Dublin, and Niall Farrell, a secondary school teacher in Drogheda, county Louth. So welcome to the Teachers Inspire podcast!

Niall:
Thanks for having us!

Louise:
Now. Okay, so I want ye to explain to me in layman's terms, what exactly the Teacher Fellowship Programme is and why you applied for it?

Emma:
So the Teacher Fellowship is essentially an opportunity for teachers to step outside of the classroom for two years and to go back to initial teacher education but in the role of an educator, we're kind of like teachers in residence... So, we sort of help to support, you know, the development of maybe lecture content, or maybe deliver the lectures, or deliver seminars, or workshops, or else we'll support teachers out on their professional placement experiences. So, we will come out and kind of just offer advice and observe lessons.

In terms, is there anything actually Niall that you want to add on to that?

Niall:
Yeah, for a post primary perspective, we seem to be more balanced in terms of lecture inputs and school placement visits, whereas primary, I believe, is much heavier on the placement elements of things.

Emma:
Yeah. They have a lot of travel.

Louise:
Okay.

Emma:
But it's actually very, very difficult to give a succinct definition of what it is, because every day is so different.

Louise:
Well Emma you are on a podcast, so I'm gonna need one okay!

[laughter from all]

I need like a pithy answer here explaining exactly what it is! So, Niall sorry, you were saying that it's a little bit different at post-primary?

Niall:
Yeah, it's structured very similarly, but we would be, I suppose, more balanced in terms of the lecture input and the school placements. And different teacher fellows, because of my role, I would be slightly less than them in terms of the number of school placement visits that I would have.

And I suppose why I applied for the position in the first place was that it was an exciting opportunity that we saw come up, and I thought it was very, very innovative and I hadn't seen anything like this before.

I had just completed my Master's in Maynooth University in Social Justice Education and when I saw the Teacher Fellowship come up with the specialism with anti-bullying, I was really, really interested in that and I applied for that as I felt I was at that point in my career where I would like a bit of a change.

And it was such a contemporary programme that I was just so excited in the interview process.

Louise:
Yeah. So tell me a little bit more now about the anti-bullying centre. I think this is a newly created role, is it?

Niall:
Yeah, so it's the first time that any of the teacher fellows would have dual aspect to the rule. So I do two days a week in the Anti-Bullying Centre which is a designated research center in DCU. So they look at specifically anti-bullying and online safety programmes.

The programme that I work on is called FUSE and it's embedded in post primary schools for first, second and third year as an anti-bullying intervention programme. And it's also in primary schools for fourth, fifth and sixth class.

Louise:
And what does that look like in terms of like, you know, the, the actual structure of the programme with the kids? What does that look like?

Niall:
So it's student led workshops, and the teachers that we that we design this for, it's very much meant to be empowering the students to kind of take a more proactive role in their schools as anti-bullying approaches.

And it very much coincides with the SPH/RSE curriculum in post primary and primary schools to kind of aid the teachers’ development in alongside the curriculum but with a more student focused approach, to get them to empower them to be a little bit more proactive in that antibullying approach in schools.

Louise:
Great, and tell me is it difficult kind of combining that with the rest of the work with the fellowship or …

Niall:
it's a bit of a balancing act for sure and I suppose that was the biggest change for me coming from the secondary school classroom because we're used to in September to getting a timetable, and that's you for nine months and go on ahead and do that, whereas for this, it's very much do as you go, and a balancing act, so roughly it's two days a week for the anti-bullying centre and three days for the IoE but that can look different depending on aspects of the year where replacement could be quite heavy (and) I might be less on the anti-bullying side of things or if there's deadlines for the anti-bullying side of things, it's kind of a give and take between so, so a lot of liaising with my superiors on trying to make that work for everybody.

Louise:
Yeah, because it sounds like a really important initiative. And Emma, we've talked about this off-mic but you are obsessed with DCU and I'm staging an intervention here!

[laughter from both]

So you're returning to DCU for the third time, so you did your undergrad graduate there, and you did your Masters so obviously, you are a big DCU fan and like, I suppose how would you describe what you're learning? Like, is there such a thing as a, as a typical day? And will you ever leave DCU?!

I think that's the big question we need answers too here!!

[laughter from all]

Emma:
Look if it’s not broke don’t fix it! It is such a nostalgic place for me, I just loved my time there as a student,

Louise:
It’s such a lovely campus.

Emma:
It is beautiful and the people, the lectures, I just love everything about it. I was actually on campus last summer, as part of my Master’s there was a face-to-face week. And I just remember thinking God, I feel so happy here.

Louise:
Oh, that's so nice.

Emma:
So it is amazing to be able to go back and work there.

Louise:
Yeah.

Emma:
But in terms of what I'm learning, I mean, that could be a podcast in itself. I suppose, practically speaking, you know, I've been really fortunate to work alongside academic staff in the School of Arts Education and Movement.

And I sat in on music, visual arts and drama lectures and I have just learned so many cool practical things and, you know, I have notebook of ideas to take back to the classroom so that's been such a privilege.

But beyond that, I suppose I'm kind of in a space now where I can kind of safely step outside my comfort zone and kind of push my own development, I guess.

So like, for me, a big challenge has been, you know, moving from teaching children to teaching young adults,

Louise:
Yeah, of course, that is a big change,

Emma:
Yeah, exactly. And you're going to like, ‘Oh, God, am I too much!”

Louise:
No, Emma, no you're not!

[laughter from both]

Emma:
it's, it's just such an incredible opportunity. I can't wait to see kind of how we leave it. I am sure I will have learned so much because we're only a semester in and I feel like I've learned so much already.

Louise:
That's incredible. Where did you see it again? Was there like an ad or where did ye come across it?

Emma:
There was an advertisement, I saw it on Twitter initially and then I was kind of humming and hawing. I thought it was an incredible opportunity. But I was a little bit like, Oh God who am I to apply for something like that. And then someone actually rang me out of the blue, so the universe was doing it’s work -

Louise:
I love it !

Emma:
And they said, I think you'd be great for this. So I ended up applying then.

[To Niall] I think you were the same?

Niall:
I also saw it on Twitter. And I was at the same point where I was kind of like sure look, if you're not in it, you can't win it. So I am going to apply and see, you know, if they like me, they like me, and if they don't, they don't. But like what's the harm in just applying. So I seen it on Twitter as well.

Louise:
So tell me like, when you saw that ad, what was your perception or like, what did ye imagine that it would be like? And is that different to the reality of being in the programme is like?

Emma:
I think, you know, it was just such a unique opportunity and for me, personally, you know, it kind of aligned two things I was really interested in and one was kind of, sort of, being in a mentoring role to teachers.

And the other was the creative aspect, you know, that I'd get to kind of spend time indulging in the development of content for subjects that I love, like art or drama, or, you know, I mean, that's such an indulgence as a teacher to get to do that.

In terms of perception, I guess, I didn't really know what to expect, because, again, the role is just so unique and when I was a student, there wasn't any teacher fellows.

Louise:
yeah.

Emma:
But we're incredibly fortunate that we have two teacher fellow mentors, and they're kind of guiding us, so we are putting everything in their hands. So, shout out to Ronan and Patricia for that!

Louise:
oh that is nice. How about you Niall, did you feel similarly or -

Niall:
yeah, I had seen aspects of the role from the inaugural teacher fellows that had posted about it on Twitter. So, I'd seen some of the nature of the inputs that they were given and giving in that scenario, and the school placement aspect of it as well.

I suppose nothing could prepare you even from looking at the job description to what it was in actuality, especially coming from the secondary school classroom where it was so structured, going to this kind of flexible role. It was quite a change. Quite a welcome change, I feel and I feel like all of us were kind of ready for that change in structure to our routines. And we've all kind of had an adjustment period with that for sure. But it's been, it's been a really great adjustment.

Louise:
Great.

Emma:
We've been so lucky to have each other as well. I think we all just get on so well and when you're kind of making such a huge change in your career. I mean, I've been at my school for eight years and the last time I was anywhere for eight years, I was in primary school myself, so to make that change along with other people who were in the same boat, you know, really helped.

Louise:
Yeah, of course. And I suppose part of the programme, it seems to provide an opportunity for continued professional development, and I suppose for teachers, is that still quite rare to feel like there's, I suppose that, that like a new opportunity, like a different avenue, a different area of education? And it's just how important do you think it is, the teachers feel like they have those opportunities, if they do decide, look, actually, I'm not sure if I want to be in a classroom anymore?

Niall:
Yeah, I think that's so important. And I think it's important to acknowledge that teachers are always upskilling in terms of their own professional development, but these opportunities rarely present themselves in the Irish education system.

It's quite a linear progression for teachers if they see themselves wanting to be outside the classroom in terms of applying for assistant principal positions in schools and going into the management type of role.

But if you don't see yourself in that type of scenario, but still want to stay in education, you can be quite limited into where you can go. So, I think that's why when we saw this teacher fellowship come up, it was such a unique and novel innovation in education, and give us that opportunity to still remain within education and apply your skill set, that we had from our background, but apply it in a new and exciting way then what we had been kind of used to in the classroom.

Louise:
Yeah, it's great.

Emma:
Yeah. And I feel that we were only talking about this, you know, the best CPD often is the teacher down the hall from you.

But I think as teachers, sometimes you don't realise how much you actually have to give with your own experience. And I know so many fantastic teachers, who would, and I suppose I was a little bit like this myself, I would be a bit reluctant to kind of go out and share your practice, because you're going God, who am I?

Louise:
Yeah

Emma:
but ultimately, you know, there's, there's so much to be learned from just your experience. And I think you forget sometimes that you have developed an incredible skill set as a teacher between presenting, you know, even the more creative aspects, like being able to develop engaging lessons, you know, so people have a lot to learn from us.

Louise:
Yeah, I agree. And like, I'd love to hear both of you speak a little bit about, I mean, it's a two-year programme, and then you're going to be going back to the classroom. And I suppose what do you think that you'll take from the fellowship, and bring back to your classrooms?

Niall:
Yes, I suppose from my perspective, the anti-bullying side of things, I have learned so many research skills, and I work with an amazing team of research, a lot of them have PhDs as well.

So you're learning a lot in terms of expertise, and their guidance on my own PhD journey has been amazing. So, I've learned research skills from that point of view, and I suppose networking with different people and stakeholders in education that I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do before. Like we said, we were so close knit with the other teacher fellows and the guidance that we've had, so even that shared learning from people from different contexts, like I would have always been kind of in the secondary school environment and to learn from people from primary school as well and see that education is very much this continuum across all sectors, has been really eye opening for me and I would definitely bring that back to the classroom if I find myself in that position.

I feel that this opportunity has been absolutely amazing and has opened so many doors and potential.

And I've seen education from a different side and perspective than what I be used to so I would definitely be open to other opportunities that may arise as a result of the teacher fellowship, if I don't find myself going back to the classrooms.

Louise:
yeah, great. It just sounds like what they're doing out in DCU is just so groundbreaking, like kind of across the board.

Emma:
Yeah, it is so innovative, and I think students kind of value you're kind of lens as a teacher as well, you know, when you're looking at content that might come from literature and then you will say, well this is my experience of it and it worked like this with one class, but it was actually like this with another class. I think it's important to know, like, as you said, that teaching isn't linear, you know. So it's good to have the kind of like, extra context, you know,

Niall:
it is the lived experience I feel like they really value. When you go into the classroom and teach the student teachers and you're preparing them for that placement, they really do appreciate your insights and the lived experience of saying, here's how this theory would actually look in the classroom where, you know, if a child challenges you in this way, here's how you would deal with that, from a theoretical perspective, but also, from the lived experience.

Louise:
It must be really scary when you're going in for the first time and I suppose you have this Oh my God, I hope they're going to listen to me, I hope they're not going to run riot or you know, whatever! It must be very great, feel very comforting to be able to talk to ye, to have that support…

Emma:
I remember my first placement and standing up in front of senior infants and being like, ‘oh my God, I'm going to pass out.’ And you know, that like, it's, it's normal.

Niall:
Yeah, you have so much empathy for them (student teachers). You were in their position at one stage, and we still remember it.

Louise:
Yeah, you are both still young, like it is not like people who've maybe been teaching for like, fifty years. It's nice to kind of feel like it’s recent.

Niall:
Yeah, the beauty of the teacher fellowship programme I feel like they really wanted teachers with that lived experience to come in and share that expertise of what we had just learned from the classroom, to kind of contextualise a little bit more what they are learning in lectures. I feel like that's what we are bringing to the table with us.

Louise:
Yeah, well, it sounds absolutely fantastic. And I'm really glad that you're like, it just seems like you're getting such benefit from it. And you're, you're really enjoying it as well, which is great.

Now, it's a question that we often ask on this podcast, but like, why did you become a teacher? And was there a particular teacher that you had either in primary or post primary that I suppose that you felt was particularly inspirational or maybe, you know, impacted that decision to go into education?

Niall:
I had a number of teachers that inspired me along the way. And I can think of one teacher in particular, was my biology teacher in school. And biology is one of my subjects from the post primary setting that I taught for a number of years.

And she was just the nicest person, had such a lovely rapport with us and was just an inspiring person to me, in my own personal journey, and just really pushed me to my boundaries as a student to kind of, not to settle and to always be striving for the best person and version of myself that I could possibly be.

And from a teaching perspective, I only appreciated when I started my teacher journey myself, how innovative some of her pedagogies and methodologies were in the classroom,

Louise:
Oh really

Niall:
and I just really appreciated - like I went back to my notes time and time again from her, to look at how I would approach certain topics and how she approached it to guide me along the way. So I have positive memories from that classroom experience myself.

Louise:
What was her name, we are going to give her a shout out!

[laughter]

Niall:
Sharon Boyle, a teacher from Bush Post Primary School. Yeah, she's absolutely brilliant. And yeah, I'll always remember her as a teacher.

Louise:
And what about you Emma?

Emma:
I had so many teachers like I absolutely adored all of my primary teachers. But if I had to pick one, and it is difficult to pick just one, I would say my secondary school English teacher.

I just remember sitting in her classes and her poetry lessons and kind of the whole… just we used to have these lovely conversations where we deconstruct a poem, or we talk about literature and it's only as a teacher that I realised how much I love doing that with my own class.

I love kind of looking through the layers and I attribute that to her. She was such a lovely woman as well, so that was Catherine Murphy in Scoil Bhríde in Tuam.

Louise:
Oh I love that, you have both given them their proper, you know, given them their flowers. Amazing.

Guys, thank you so much to both of you for coming in today.

Emma & Niall:
Thanks so much for having us.

Louise:
Now, remember, you can find out more about Teachers Inspire and you can keep up to date on the awards at Teachersinspire.ie and while you're there, you'll find links to other episodes of the podcast, or you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time…